As NEWSWEEK’s Baghdad Bureau Chief and correspondent-at-large, Rod Nordland reports from all over the world. His foreign assignments in recent years have ranged from Bosnia and Kosovo, to the Gulf and Kuwait, Russia, Afghanistan and Pakistan, Iran, Somalia and South Africa, Mount Everest, Uganda and Tanzania, Chechnya and Cuba, Indonesia and East Timor. He regularly covers the Balkans and is accredited at the Holy See and covers the Vatican for NEWSWEEK as well. Nordland is currently directing NEWSWEEK’s coverage of the war in Iraq from Baghdad. His war reporting, as well as his reporting on massacres of Muslims in Bosnia and in Kosovo have won numerous awards. Heads of state interviewed by Nordland include Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan, Yasir Arafat, Ali Abdallah Saleh of Yemen, the late King Hussein of Jordan, among many others.
Rod Nordland: This is Rod Nordland in Baghdad, ready to take your questions. Rod
Goshen, Indiana: How optimistic are you that the interim government structure will be successful in getting the fractured religious parties in Iraq to collaborate?
Rod Nordland: Optimistic? I don’t know many optimists out here and I’m certainly not one of them; it will be very difficult at best and if I had to place money, I’d put it on civil war before I’d put it on the interim government.
Milwaukee, WI: Since the USA has done such a miserable job in Iraq, in your opinion, please tell us how you would have done it better.
Rod Nordland: I certainly am not qualified to run an occupied country, but then nor were many of the people we sent out here frankly, especially a country as complex and challenging as this one. For starters, it would have helped a great deal if they staffed the Coalition Provisional Authority with experienced diplomats and experts instead of a preponderance of people whose main qualification seemed to have been helping in a GOP political campaign somewhere.
Valley City, ND: Do you think that Iraqi soldiers will be able to stand up to the emotional trauma of killing their own countrymen, and if so, will rehabilitation centers be set up to avoid problems like Post-Conflict Stress syndrome after the first Gulf War?
Rod Nordland: I haven’t noticed that Iraqi soldiers had any problem killing their fellow countrymen in the past. And I do think Iraqi retaliation against the insurgents will be a lot more acceptable to other Iraqis than American retaliation. But we’re a long way from seeing an Iraqi force capable of doing that well enough to supplant the Americans, perhaps years and certainly many months away.
Greenfield, Wisconsin: Why is the United States being constantly blamed for the unsafe environment in Iraq? The dictator has been defeated, the Iraqis have a chance to create a government of their choosing, but like the Israel situation, the people seem to always want to continue the killing, rather than make peace.
Rod Nordland: The US has been the government of Iraq, as the occupation authority. Who else would you blame?
Temple City, CA: Don’t you think this is sort of expected considering the efforts it took to get Germany back on track after World War II?
Rod Nordland: I think we sent a much higher caliber of professional nation builders to Germany and Japan, and they had a much higher degree of cooperation from the local populaces; once those countries surrendered, they for the most part stopped fighting. This hasn’t been the case in Iraq, and as a result comparatively less has been accomplished even given the amount of time— which after all is already 15 months post invasion.
Birmingham, Alabama: With the focus primarily placed on the post turnover days, and Saddam’s turnover—has the Iraqi government outlined any type of plan to snuff out the escalating insurgency, or make Sadr stand trial for his crimes?
Rod Nordland: They’re talking very tough, language like, ‘we’ll cut off their heads.’ But so far, the only substantive thing they’ve done is given everyone off work for the next few days so there are less targets. But to be fair, it’s early days.
Allen Park, MI: I am a little curious about your tone in this article. Why the sarcasm and vitriol. Certainly war is tough and media-blanketed war tougher, but why not simply present the facts, leaving subjective value judgments to either history or someone predisposed to a modicum of objectivity and/or sensitivity.
Rod Nordland: News magazines are written with a point of view, though we endeavor to be fair as well; but I’ve also been accused, concerning this article, of being unduly complimentary of General Petraeus. And as for vitriol, sorry I didn’t notice any vitriolic passages.
Colorado Springs, Colorado: The people that are attacking Americans and others are saying that they will not be happy until the Americans and other foreigners leave their country. That is bull. Anyone with a half a brain knows that Bush wants to be re-elected. The best way for that to happen is for him to pull out our troops out before the election. So, my question is…If the troublemakers in Iraq really want us out, why don’t they simply stop killing so we can pull out?
Rod Nordland: Fair point. But consider what would happen if we pulled our troops out, even beginning next week. First it would take a month or more. Even before they were gone, the various militias would begin jockeying for powers; others would rearm, and in the course of the next couple months we’d see an extremely vicious civil war that could quite likely cost the lives of tens of thousands of people. I honestly don’t think that would help Bush’s reelection efforts; from his right, he’d be decried as soft, and from his left, as prosecuting an unjust war and leaving a messy civil war behind. I don’t think Bush—or the United States, whoever leads it—has any option of getting out until after elections in Iraq next January, at the best.
Trabuco Canyon, CA: How can you say the occupation is over when there are still 130,000 American soldiers still there being killed?
If this is going to be passed off as a handover, why don’t we keep FDR on the dime and just say it’s Reagan?
Rod Nordland: Well the occupation has really only ended from a legal point of view, and one that is confirmed by the United Nations. In a colloquial sense, of course, it’s hard not to call the presence of 138,000 American troops who can pretty much do as they will an occupation. But we have taken genuine steps to devolve power and authority to the interim government, and if that continues I think we’ll hear the term occupation less and less.
Columbia, SC: Mr. Nordland, I have heard many people like yourself take shots at the Bush administration for what they/we did “wrong” both during the occupation. Unfortunately, I have not heard any specifics from those same naysayers as to what they would have done differently. Where specifically do you think we dropped the ball? What could we have done differently? Do you believe that we are actually trying to say that “..all is well with Iraq”, or “…all things considered, things are better in Iraq than they were under Saddam?
Rod Nordland: There’s a pretty long list of things we could have done differently, put forth by people a lot more qualified than I. Not dissolving the Iraqi army. Imposing a curfew and taking strong steps to stop the looting after we first arrived. Making damn sure something like Abu Ghraib didn’t happen in the first place— and moving more quickly to deal with it than we did in the second place. And while I don’t agree that Iraqis were better off under Saddam, it is certainly true that many of them feel they were, particularly when it comes to little amenities like electricity.
Spokane, WA: Do average Iraqis truly understand what democracy is?
Rod Nordland: That’s a hard question. Certainly educated people do. And certainly there are some pretty common values shared throughout our world today, about individual rights and the concept of voting and shared responsibility, things that underpin democracy. On the other hand, Iraqis have never known democracy, and you hear an awful lot of them say, “Is this what you call democracy?”, referring to heavy-handed occupation tactics.
Glenside, Pa: Since General Petraeus is now in charge of training security forces in Iraq, and the transition of power has taken place, what does that mean for the U.S. troops? How long before the United States is out of Iraq?
Rod Nordland: Even if Petraeus is wildly successful, and an awful lot of folks hope he may be, he has said himself that he expects it to be “months if not years” before the job of securing Iraq can be turned over to the Iraqis and U.S. troops can leave. I think the most optimistic scenario is that elections will be held on schedule by next January and U.S. troops will begin drawing down after that. But so much could go wrong; Iraqi police and troops could be spectacularly defeated over the next months, setting the whole process back. Or competing factions here could decide to resort to civil war rather than elections to choose their leaders. I’m not optimistic, but Petraeus is an impressive leader and if anyone can pull the Iraqi security forces together, he can.
NYC: They are generating more electricity now then they ever had in Iraq, what do you have to say about that little fact?
Rod Nordland: That it’s not true. On occasion they’ve managed to generate more than the 4,400 MW of the Saddam era, but not on a sustained basis, and in the capital there are fewer hours of electricity per day now than ever during the Saddam era. There are many reasons for this, not all of them the fault of the coalition, but the signal failure to do the one thing that would most placate Iraqis—make sure they have enough power to air condition their homes in summer weather that peaks at 130 degrees (and is already at 115)—is a very significant one.
Andover, N. J.: Who are the insurgents? Are they not Iraqi? What are the three segments of Iraq? Can what is referred to as Iraqis be compared to the Germans who were in fear of contesting the Nazis? I am confused about the division of the country of Iraq and the words insurgency and insurgents. Please give definitions and explanations of divisions.
Rod Nordland: One man’s insurgent is another man’s terrorist. There are a welter of groups, and an awful lot that’s just not known. But it’s clear that by far the largest number are Iraqis who were supporters of Saddam and the Baathist party, along with a growing number of people who are just angry at the occupation, and a growing number of religious extremists who are offended by the presence of foreigners here. And there are also foreign terrorists, from al Qaeda and possibly other groups, though I think it’s a mistake to assume that they’re the major factor here. Even when it comes to strictly terrorist actions—that is, attacks that anyone would consider terrorist, such as setting off a car bomb in an area crowded with civilians—it’s increasingly clear that even much of that sort of thing is home grown too, the scale is just too large to fob it off on foreign terrorists.
Altamonte Springs Florida: Why was the article written in such a bitter and negative tone? The report seemed to contain little information or facts that the reader could use to formulate conclusions or be better informed.
Rod Nordland: I suppose your question refers to my web exclusive story from yesterday, rather than the cover story I wrote on General Petraeus. The former was more of an editorial comment and analysis, one that I felt very much needed to be made to balance some of the superficial reporting we’ve seen about what a great success the handover was. The latter is more of a reported piece and has a more neutral tone.
Austin, MN: Why are we sending more troops over if we are turning over power?
Rod Nordland: We did send more troops over a few months ago, though not huge numbers; rather we’re extending tours of duty to keep at the number of roughly 138,000. This has been made necessary by a tremendous increase in the level of attacks on American troops since April, and even before that happened many commanders have felt that they’re stretched very thin as it is. What we’ve handed over is not military control, but political authority; it is Iraqis who will now make the laws and to some extent enforce them. But they just don’t have the military force to face up to the level of insurgency we’re seeing now.
Pittsburgh PA: Your article is awfully negative. Saddam had thirty years “to build Iraq”, why would you expect anyone to have it up and running within two years?
Rod Nordland: Actually, Saddam spent 30 years destroying this country, and as many American officials will tell you, that’s what makes it so hard to rebuild things now. But it’s just inconceivable to Iraqis, and to me for that matter, why we haven’t in 15 months been able to restore an adequate level of electrical power, when in 1991, with far less resources, Saddam’s government took three months to get electricity back on line after the first Gulf War—when many of his power plants had also been destroyed.
Irvine, CA: Is it true that Nordland is actually the secret twin brother of Michael Moore?
Rod Nordland: No, actually while I admire Michael Moore’s industry, I think he plays far too loose with the facts.
Englewood: Do you have anything positive to say about the Iraq war and the administration?
Rod Nordland: Yes, but frankly the administration has plenty of cheerleaders for its effort in Iraq; it needs healthy criticism more. But I will say that it deeply impresses me every time I meet an honest, hardworking, well-meaning and deeply put-upon GI pulling incredibly hard duty, with the best of intentions toward the Iraqi people and a real belief in his mission; and I meet many, many of them. It’s such a pity that this whole business has been so badly managed that they’ve had to stay for as long as they have.
Falls Church, Va: I was a soldier in Baghdad—I was there—I actually worked with these Iraqi security forces. They were terrible, I never felt my back was covered with them around. Where do you gain the confidence that these Iraqis simply have the will to do it. Everything depends on us-the minute we pullout-(if we ever do), things will become very bad quick.
Rod Nordland: I’ve seen evidence of that myself again and again. The hope is that a sense of doing things for themselves, of sovereignty and independence, will, with good training and adequate equipment, spur them to take matters into their own hands. I’m not sure it will, but I also think it’s about the best hope we have if we’re to get out of Iraq anytime soon without leaving a complete disaster in our wake.
Oklahoma: How can we be certain that the Iraqi’s we are training won’t turn on the government and use their new skills against us. What if all we’re actually doing is training secret insurgents?
Rod Nordland: That is a danger, and one that I’m sure the military leadership has considered. It has in some senses already happened; the Iraqi National Guard and the police have in several conspicuous cases already done that. We’ve formed the Fallujah Brigade nominally under US Marine Corps command in Fallujah, but it openly sides with the insurgents. Again, the hope is that they really start to buy into the idea that their job is not as auxiliaries to American forces, but that they have a stake in the future of their own country.
Titusville, PA: Why do you hate America?
Rod Nordland: You know, I was tempted to dismiss that question out of hand. I’m American myself and I don’t hate my country, though I’m often profoundly disappointed in some of its actions. I used to come to Iraq during the Saddam era and it was the most vicious, brutal regime I’ve ever had to work under. One of the things it did, when we journalists visited, was to assign us minders, government officials who were often thuggish spies, who accompanied us to interviews and made sure if anyone said anything out of line, they’d be punished. And then I came here with the invasion—one that I personally supported, by the way—and after only a couple months found my own government violating the principles it stood for to such a degree that for a time they too were assigning minders to journalists who wanted to visit Iraqi ministries. And so on. I’m sorry if this is too complex a thought for the simple-minded among us, but you don’t have to hate your country to be ashamed of what it sometimes does.
Santiago, Chile: How do you select Iraqis for the important task of belonging to the security force? Is there process in which U.S. soldiers ensure their allegiance or do they just train everyone who displays interest? Furthermore, is there a role for women in the new security force?
Rod Nordland: Yes they are training an unprecedented number of women for the police and some of the other security forces. And there is a process for vetting applicants to the security forces, chiefly making sure that they were not officials in the former Baath Party.
Morgan, Utah: By law, with the transfer of sovereignty, all prisoners of war should be freed. We have heard in the media what might happen to Saddam Hussein, but what will happen to the thousands still being held in Abu Ghraib and other satellite prisons?
Rod Nordland: That’s a good question. Their goal is to release as many of the non-criminal detainees as possible, and they have been releasing thousands in the past couple months. But the U.S. under the interim laws in effect until a government is elected still has the right to hold “security detainees”, if it feels they are a danger to their forces, although greater rights of review are being instituted. One of the positive outcomes of the Abu Ghraib scandal has been greater efforts at accountability, and more rapid review of whether individual detainees really need to be held or not.
Tampa, Florida: How large of a force will the Iraqi security forces have after they train and will that be enough to handle the insurgency?
Rod Nordland: There are already more than 200,000 Iraqi security forces, and the conclusion that the military has come to now is that the numbers are not the issue—though they will be training some 20,000 more army troops. Rather, the important thing is to improve their leadership, training and equipment, and that is where efforts are now being focused.
Philadelphia, PA: Do you see Iraq turning into another Vietnam?
Rod Nordland: Isn’t it already, in some senses? However, to keep things in perspective: the current death toll of U.S. troops is about at 1965 levels in Vietnam, and even in 1966 more than 2,000 U.S. troops died—so we’re a long way from the scale of Vietnam. We’re also a long way from the end, too.
Geneva, IL: I am in contact with U.S Army officers whose mission is training the new Iraqi Army. They have severe reservations about the ability of the Iraq soldiers to do the job. They also have severe reservations about Lt. Gen. Petraeus and whether or not he has a grasp on what the situation on the ground is really like. Some of these officers were at a meeting in Taji that you seem to have covered in your story. The general is quoted as telling the officers the Iraqis need more live fire. Did any of the officers mention to the general they have a very hard time securing ammo for the Iraqis, let alone for their own personal weapons? Was the fact that Iraq soldiers are spending more time on leave than training ever brought up? How about the corruption within the Iraqi Army where soldiers bribe their officers to get cushy assignments? Were any of these topics mentioned?
Rod Nordland: Boy, I wish I’d talked to you or your sources before the story. Email me directly at rod.nordland@newsweek.com if you want to follow up.
Spokane, WA: In your opinion, why is the U.S. not getting more help in Iraq from regional Muslim nations like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey? Would their involvement not be welcomed by the Iraqis? Would it not be welcomed by the Americans?
Rod Nordland: We’ve tried, they’ve refused. And in any case, Iraqis wouldn’t be very happy with neighbors like Turkey and Kuwait—Turkey has political interests of its own, and Kuwait they went to war over and deeply distrust—and Saudi Arabia’s own people wouldn’t be very happy with an intervention there either.
Gering, NE: If Allawi is forced to declare martial law in Iraq, how will he be able to keep Iraq from becoming disillusioned about the hope of freedom and democracy? And secondly, do most Iraqis even understand what democracy is?
Rod Nordland: I’ve answered your second one. But I think Allawi is an astute enough politician to realize that martial law would be pretty popular with an awful lot of Iraqis who are fed up with the disorder and lack of security. I hear that it’s the Americans who are less happy with that notion, and don’t think it’ll work. Even democracies, though, from time to time declare martial law. Though can an immature democracy survive that? Pretty open question.
NYC: On the topic of electricity, why are you so quick to point out faults in our troops and not discuss any other factors? That seems very anti-American to only discuss problems with our troops, could there be an agenda here?
Rod Nordland: Did I forget to mention that the terrorists who set off bombs without any regard whatever to civilian casualties, who hunt down and kill Westerners like myself without any idea who they are and what they’re doing, are bestial and disgusting and enjoy universal contempt?
Woodbridge, Virginia: Does the general think it’s productive to call active duty retirees back to active duty or activate more Reserves/National Guards.
Rod Nordland: His job is training the Iraqi forces, not deploying the American ones.
Cincinnati Ohio: Do you believe that there will be civil war in Iraq over the exchange of power between the interim governing council and the terrorists within that country?
Rod Nordland: It’s much more complex than that. The danger of civil war arises from the fact that Sunni Arabs governed this country, although a minority, for most of this century in fact. The Shia and Kurds were dispossessed and often brutally suppressed, and they don’t want to see that happen again. Shiites make up 60 percent of the country, and they naturally feel they should lead it. The Sunnis are terrified at that prospect, feel cheated of their birthright, and are likely to resist it. The Kurds have enjoyed a certain autonomy in the north, which they may not want to give up to a subordinate role in a unified Iraq led by the Shia. Complicating that still further are divisions within the Kurds—who have fought each other in the past—and within the Shia, who may also fall out with one another. And then there’s the oil, much of which is in Kirkuk area, a traditionally Kurdish area repopulated under Saddam with Sunni Arabs. If all that blows up, the insurgency we’re seeing now, bad as it is, will seem like a minor prelude to the really nasty stuff.
Austin, Texas: What incentives will the Iraqi police and security forces be offered besides bringing intangible freedom to their country if they become the most targeted opportunities from the terrorists and insurgents.
Rod Nordland: Aside from the thanks of a grateful nation, you mean? They are getting better and better pay, and those in the most dangerous jobs are by local standards very well paid indeed. Even their death benefits have been greatly enhanced. And everyone in Iraq remembers when their country was rich, and looks forward to sharing in that bounty. So the incentives certainly are there. They have to believe, though, that they’re fighting for them—rather than fighting for an occupation force they deeply resent and distrust. Many Iraqis are convinced we’re really there to steal their oil.
Richmond, Virginia: Do any of the politicians that voted for this war have any children fighting in Iraq?
Rod Nordland: Excellent question, but I’m sorry I don’t know the answer.
Auburn Nebraska USA: Why can’t the U.S. use money seized from Saddam and other terrorist organizations to help rebuild Iraq? This seems to make more sense than using money from the States that needs to stay in America to help the poor and middle class.
Rod Nordland: We can and we have used money seized from the former regime, but we’re talking about something that costs many billions of dollars more than that.
Pretoria, South Africa: Now that the Iraqi government is in charge, why doesn’t the U.S. army quietly and discreetly withdraw out of sight and the limelight and see if the Iraqis themselves can maintain the law with the help of the public.
Rod Nordland: I think we’ll gradually start to see that happening, and if it’s successful, it’ll happen more and more. They’re concerned though not to do that too fast and set the Iraqi security forces up for a spectacular and demoralizing fall.
Rod Nordland: That’s all from me. Thanks very much for the questions.
